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How Navistar solved its EGR problems


LISLE, Ill. — It’s no secret that Navistar International had its share of EGR-related failures as it attempted to meet EPA10 emissions standards without the use of SCR exhaust aftertreatment.

The company very candidly addressed the issue at its Analyst Day earlier this week, and offered a full explanation of the fix it has implemented.

Tim Shick, vice-president of sales support with Navistar, said most of the problems could be traced to the MaxxForce engine’s turbo air control valve, which connects directly to the engine’s electronic control module (ECM). The ECM, very importantly, would dictate via that connection how much fresh air should be supplied to the engine and for how long, as well as how much hot exhaust should be supplied and for how long, to effectively reduce emissions.

However, constant vibration and wind underneath the hood would cause the connection to become loose.

“When this began to fail, it didn’t become totally dislodged,” Shick explained. “The truck went down the road and the connector moved around due to vibration and wind under the hood and through a process called ‘fretting’ would wear these pins down to the point where it would connect intermittently.”

The intermittent connection would cause the device to “overfuel” the engine with sooty exhaust, which first went to the EGR valve. Exacerbating the situation, the shaft on the EGR valve was prone to failure, allowing in a free-flow of soot-saturated exhaust.

“What usually happens is you get an open flow of exhaust coming in at will, which is full of soot, because the engine is not combusting all the fuel completely and it goes into the EGR coolers,” Shick explained.

Next thing you know, the exhaust manifold, valve and coolers inside the EGR housing are filled with soot. Fuel economy deteriorates, a dashboard light comes on and the truck needs to be taken out of service.

This was problematic with engines produced in 2010 through 2012. However, by 2013 Navistar had identified the problem and taken steps to address it, Shick explained.

For starters, it hardwired the connection from the turbo air control valve to the ECM so that it could no longer shake free and lose its connection as a result of over-the-road vibrations. It also made the EGR valve shaft 30% larger and less susceptible to sticking.

Navistar also removed some sharp edges from within the system that were causing premature fatiguing and cracking of components. It also redesigned the EGR cooler, providing more room for exhaust gases to flow.

Navistar says the improvements have dramatically reduced warranty claims. It now updates used trucks taken in through its Diamond Renewed used truck reconditioning program to implement the improved components. International MaxxForce engines built in 2013 and after will already come with the fix.

An International dealer can determine whether pre-2013 engines have been updated with the improved parts. Navistar is so confident with the fix, it offers a one-year, 100,000-mile warranty on used trucks that have been reconditioned through its Diamond Renewed program.


James Menzies

James Menzies

James Menzies is editor of Truck News magazine. He has been covering the Canadian trucking industry for more than 15 years and holds a CDL. Reach him at james@newcom.ca or follow him on Twitter at @JamesMenzies.
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75 Comments » for How Navistar solved its EGR problems
  1. Ted Batchelor says:

    James,

    Where these Cummins engines?

    Thanks

    Ted

  2. Tom MacKay says:

    I have a 2003 ford F350 with the 6.0L Navistar engine which has caused me considerable grief with the EGR costing me about $ 3000.00 out of my pocket. Since Navistar has realized the error of their ways, will this be also realized by ford? I am pursuing this with Ford and will send you a letter at a later date with Fords response.

  3. James Menzies James Menzies says:

    Ted, International MaxxForce engines. Added for clarity. Thanks.
    James

  4. Dr. Diesel says:

    That was only a few of the many failures on these engines. The main failure on the Maxxforce 13 was and still is “Serviceabilty”. You can change a EGR valve on a Cummins ISX CM 2350 in the same amount of time it takes to remove and install the seats when changing a EGR valve on a Maxxforce 13. Yes I said seats. The seats, gear shift lever, floor mats, lower dash assembly, and cab engine cover have to be removed just to see the EGR valve on a Maxxforce 13.

    • Jose estevez says:

      How much it will cost to replace the EGR cooler and valve can anyone tell me please

      • Jose says:

        Truck diagnosed needing a Turbo, EGR cooler and EGR valve.

      • John Muchowicz says:

        I have a 2010 8600. I paid $8000+ for a valve and cooler replacement in September at an International dealer.
        Still feeling the burn on that one since i had only had the truck 5 months at that point and it was not covered under the diamond warranty i paid for when bought the truck.

    • Wade says:

      I drive a 2015 Prostar for a company truck. And yes the cab is gutted to get to the EGR valve. It failed on mine, then the turbo. One year later at only 335K kms it is blowing oil out the vent tube. Garbage trucks.

  5. John Rozema says:

    All of the newer trucks are not very relible , at least before we could get it to the garage to repair it now it just quits. Has anyone done a study to figure out the true cost of EGR/DPF/def related to all the repair costs? I wonder if we worked it out we would not figure out that all the repairs and making of replacement parts is MORE damaging to the envoirment than the extra emissions equetment? My old trucks seemed to get the same fuel mileage 20 years ago maybe an improvement on old engines would produce a net benefit to the envoirment?

  6. Tom MacKay says:

    I received an email from ford and they state that Ford Motor Company is not responsible for any damage, loss and a multitude of other excuses why they will do nothing about the 6.0 Litre diesel EGR system defects. I am writing a letter to other publications explaining all the EGR problems I have experienced with this engine and perhaps others will get involved and moan as I am doing.

    • Floyd says:

      I have 30 6.0L ford engines in my company fleet all with 200,000.00 plus miles on them and very little egr problems, they are stock no programmers none have any deletes on them and run everyday, changed everyone to stud kits for headgaskets and have no issues besides normal wear and tar.

  7. Ryan says:

    Give me a break! A Fortune 500 company brought to it’s knees by a wire connection?!

    Who wrote this?….straw man at it’s best. They have lost all trust on engine components with all these issues…let’s just hope Cummins takes over.

  8. Ricardo says:

    Well, the problem is not really the engines, the problem is EPA unreal requirements as well California Air Resources Board, they have pushed this unreliable technology on the industry, inflating operation cost and hurting working families big time as well truck and engine builders, I have seen this European trucks with all metal filters installed performing better for a fraction of the cost

  9. Jeremy Mendes says:

    There isn’t a current emissions standard diesel platform that is working correctly at all. Would it have been constructive to have allowed Detroit to pursue their ethanol platform. Is protecting the interests of big oil number as a number1 priority logical?

  10. victor says:

    just wondering, is the 2015 16 international prostar worth buying or are they still pleg with problems

  11. Gerry B says:

    They have done an awful lot of work on the system and it’s much better. Unfortunately they’re using the same old High Temp EGR Cooler. Improve the reliability of the Cooler and you’ve got a pretty good engine.

  12. Tom B. says:

    There’s a company out there called M1M, and they make a drop-in replacement EGR Cooler core for the EPA ’10 engines. They don’t currently sell them at the dealers, but you can buy them direct. I haven’t personally used them, but with the cores failing every 100,000 miles or so, it might make sense to try an aftermarket core. Their website is: http://www.egr-cooler.com

  13. Mike Carll says:

    What about all of us that are stuck with these unreliable engine’s. Are you going to fix them or are we going to have to fix this problem as well?

  14. Mike Carll says:

    Maybe it solved its problem but we are still stuck with their last problem.

  15. stoney smith says:

    What are symptoms of egr bad on maxxforce 13? Im getting intermittent whistle, and smell of diesel, and constant regeneration. Now dpf light comes on,then off after 20 miles. At the end of money and wits end!

  16. stoney smith says:

    Could the egr need cleaning, or replaced? I hear they’re about $1000

  17. B R Wilson says:

    the EGR system is a costly system that California pushed on the nation just to make money for the state. they did not look into the fact that you CAN NOT burn exhaust gases because you’ve already done that. if you truly look in to the EGR system you will find out that it cause the motor to burn more fuel. there are better ways to lower emissions than what is in place now, but Cali. and Big Oil will not let that technology come to light

    • Luke says:

      The theory of Exhaust Gas Recirculation was to combat against in adequate engineering of past generation combustion systems with UNmonitored emissions. The modern other fuel technology has adapted exhaust monitoring systems that continue to adjust information to fuel systems so that they achieve optimal combustion in multinational operating conditions. The large hate organizations against transportation professionals and the associated equipment is a continuous process that has become the economic depression for many in the USA.

      Secondary Exhaust Treatment systems are a continued presence that adds weight to modernization of transportation technology and reliability.

      The soot created by and an inappropriately adjusted engine is entertainment yet gasoline bio or otherwise exhaust monitoring communicates back to a central fuel injection system to solve this problem decades ago this similar type of technology should be adequate with new models of structuring combustion chambers in diesel technology with out need for secondary techniques or excessive recirculated emissions one would think with all this modern digital technology and connectivity.

  18. mel says:

    its true, i have a 2012, engine blew at 250k miles, replaced undet warranty with upgraded maxforce 13 and no problems since,

  19. Jeff says:

    Just went through the EGR issue with our International ambulance. It is a 2010 with a Maxxforce engine. Unit kept stalling out or not wanting to go when you hit the accelerator. Exhaust temp light coming on all the time and really bad exhaust smell and white smoke from the pipe. I had it in the shop and they found the EGR cooler bad and pipe leading to the cooler full of black soot that they could not remove. Had to have the whole system replaced. Not a cheap repair. The truck has been a nightmare from day one. Had a second truck with the same motor. No longer part of our fleet.

  20. Kevin ostendorf says:

    I have a 2009 durastar have replaced 4 egr coolers in the last 2 years all but 1 out of warranty I replaced both last August 2015 they have both gone again 11 months later where is the fix only had International Dealer replace them this article is a joke!

  21. f.reese says:

    they need to take them all off the road and repay everyone that have a pro star truck

  22. miguel says:

    Very good I want to buy a 2009 Prostar with MaxxForce Engine Horsepower motor: 450 Transmission Speeds: 10 Speed T-2 say that it is very problematic that engine I recommended?

  23. Eddie says:

    I’ve been having an ongoing issue with my 2011 prostar (maxxforce engine) for 10 months now, back and forth in the shop with diesel and exhaust like fumes…. put a new dog house shield in and now I’m getting a taste but no smell and it is making me sick. The dealers have claimed bad manifold, bad exhaust pipe, bad shifter boot and other fixes but I am still having this issue.

  24. Gordon Heck says:

    Have a 2013 Navistar 7500. Biggest POS on the road. Has been in the shop 5 months since I’ve owned it and back again for a new EGR, Particulate filter and a new and improved exhaust manifold. Approximate cost, 8,000 and another week out of service where I need to get a rental.

    Absolutely no help from Navistar/International. They want me to trade it in and get another.

  25. charles morrison says:

    I have been advised by a Freightliner salesman that a Maxxforce engine is good IF the polution crap is removed from the engine????

  26. Robert Stone says:

    Yes,this is crazy,i have a 2011 Prostar. I’ve had the engine replaced in 2014,with only 325,00 on it. They replaced the block,now it’s 2Yrs later and I had the second engine to go with only 190,000. Now the company I’m leaseing the truck are not trying to give me any assistance with getting navistar to do anything with the repair.

  27. Bill says:

    I had a maxxforce7 and the last 4 repairs were all broken rockers and rods. These engines are only good for 100000 miles max. After that you might as well just junk them because even internationanal won’t take them for trade in.

  28. Chucky says:

    I have an 2012 international Prostar with the MaxxForece 13 and my engine light came on but never lost power by any means and all the gauges stayed normal. The light did go off the next day but I had the health report done and it show something going on with egr low flow . But other than that I have no issues at all. I think my truck was updated before I got. Any suggestion

  29. Don says:

    I have an 2012 international Prostar with the MaxxForece 13 5 of the last 6 weeks in the shop . I ask them to trade my 2012 for a 2010 they said no yours has no resale value . I said I know that its a piece of crap. no help from navistar trucks going in the shop again

  30. David says:

    My 2015 N9 just hydrolocked with only 90k. Egr cooler went bad and leaked the coolant into the block over night and when I hit the key I lost cylinder number 6??? I have the latest motor. Don’t believe the hipe! They are garbage and will put you out of business!!

  31. Juan says:

    We recently purchased 2 2012 International maxforce. Within a month one of them blew a Turbo and cost me $9,500. And within the week my EGR valve cooler went out to costing $4,500. Both trucks had the diamond select service plan. Now they’re telling me the diamond select inspection it’s not covered under warranty. Does anybody know or can anybody help me with this issue? The trucks were bought inWestrucks International in Colton California.

  32. LORNE Richardson says:

    Navistar is doing R&D at the expense of every one that they can sucker into buying one of the maxi-shit
    Engines that they produce , they have had egr problems as far back as 2005 on these engines and possible earlier, why not start a class action law suite
    Against them, as share as he’ll they have put many a trucker bankrupt with them.

  33. Dave says:

    I have 2013 lonestar maxxforce 13 500hp bought new pulled heavy since the day off the lot had no issues now if you want to talk about shit engines let’s talk cumapart aka cummins

  34. Bryan says:

    Maybe juse delete all of it and make it a c13 cat engine like it should be and all the problemsame go away and you can get back to making money instead of down time and expensive repairs.

  35. KC says:

    Has anyone tried any fuel additives to make the diesel run cleaner or burn hotter?
    I really don’t know the chemistry behind it but I tried this on a dd13 that is in a 2010 freightliner, pre liquid def, and it literally made a new engine out of it. All issues stopped within a week.

  36. Papi1960R says:

    I’ve got a 2015 ProStar Eagle with a Maxx Force 13 with Cummins SCR.
    It was 1 of 48 that were used as a test fleet by Swift for 50,000 miles.
    It has the larger volume EGR Valves and the improved oil filter system introduced on the 2014 Maxx Force 13. It also has a much larger radiator and coolant capacity that was specified by Swift. It has a 12 speed Ultrashift automated transmission. It also has a TK APU. Maxx Force engines idle at much higher temp than others and that’s when the most soot is made clogging the DPF.
    Just the words Maxx Force made this truck 25% cheaper than other brands with the same features and miles. I bought this from International in Phoenix for $91K with 52K on the odometer.
    I run a Harbor Freight tools loop from Moreno Valley, CA to San Antonio, TX to Oklahoma City, OK and back to Moreno Valley. No Giant mountains , but Texas Hill Country & a lot of big hills on I-40 in NM & AZ. My average starting weight is 39,000 lbs, returning to California with about 14,000lbs. I limited my cruise control to 65mph and foot throttle at 68.
    The truck now has 322K, my running 52 week fuel average is 9.3MPG. I guess putting 55-70% less hot dirty air into the combustion chamber works and lowers idle temps greatly.
    I have not had a break down or major repair, just normal services and ECM updates(2). BTW the ECM looks the same but I was told at International Phoenix that it’s mostly a Cummins on the inside.
    I replaced the wimpy Mexican brand X shocks with Gabriel Gas SLC shocks and the ride is very comfortable even on concrete slab.
    I have replaced the Left Front Dim bulb 5 times all other lights are original.

    • David M says:

      Lol. Left front dim bulb has been bad on Prostars for years. That same bulb was bad on my 2009 Prostar and bad on my 2014 Prostar.

  37. ITVN says:

    You should for manual testing will see the error code. For 27-7 will be jammed EGR valve, you can overcome by removing and handling the jam with RP7. Type EGR valve until it bounces smoothly

  38. Ty McLenithan says:

    In a Municipal fleet (snow plows) our Maxx Force 13 engines seem to have far fewer issues 2013 and newer. Even though the older ones did frequent the dealer, I will say IH paid the bill. I’m happy to learn why we have fewer issues. The drivers like the visibility and comfort of the truck (7600)

  39. Mike Gough says:

    I drove a Maxxforce 7 diesel 8 cyl in a class 7 like full sized school bus. One hour north of Toronto on mostly rural but some urban suburb low speed streets. The buses were a bear all winter long needing multiple parked regeneration. One in particular went back to local Navistar dealership for new parts and sensors three times. The companies warranty rights run out after 100,000 kilometers. The cost to fix a DPF beyond warranty are astronomical. I also did routine crankcase oil level checks to see how much higher it had gone. Other drivers ignored that issue and stressed the motors. In one case a broken piston. You also gotta wonder what viscosity crankcase oil is when it is cut 25% through bypassed diesel contained in it. Yes quite the star if you buy Navistar!

  40. Louie says:

    I have a 2013 IHC PROSTAR PRO and have paid a over $10,000 in repairs for EGR issues. So, I can attest Navistar hasn’t fix the issue. My truck has relatively low mileage and still under warranty, but Navistar keeps saying the EGR issue are not cover. I need a little help here.

  41. john kallsen says:

    well I was hoping that international had their problems solved as I wanted to buy one of the 2013 max force tractors on sale f0r 19,500 with only 404,000 miles on it, but from reading all of your posts it doesn’t sound like their advertised fix isn’t worth the paper it’s wrote on. shame because the trucks themselves are very nice.

  42. Alex says:

    I’m thinking of buying a penske international prostar real cheap,with maxxforce 13 and ultra,shift,would it be worth 17k

  43. Rick says:

    Where this maxforce engines using Westport HPDI NG? Any comments on NG engines, thanks.

  44. Paul Craig says:

    There is a fix, for this it’s an add on for a hydrogen fuel cell, stops regen system because all fuel is converted to 80% octane burns 100% of diesel so no soot adds horsepower and mileage. can be purchased on line and installed by you or mechanic have been using four years works on any rig. Although takes a few days/weeks to clean-up any gunk, my regen was running every day, after hydrogen add-on the fuel was so pure it may activate once every 3-4 weeks. No changes made other than add-on completely legal. It takes a while to search it out, since the website changes from time to time. They have had a lot of resistance from the powers that be. Sorry I cannot recall website at this point as has been 4 years, but I am sure they are out there. FYI I’ve been driving professionally since 1978.

  45. Joe Gleason says:

    I have owned a Navistar 7 Maxxforce diesel for 3 years in my RV. A lot of whining by a few about a lot of nothing! Mine has been 100% problem free, never seen the inside of an International (or any other) repair facility and runs like a beast!

    • Joseph McCoy says:

      Hi Joe: You are the first positive comment I have sen on the Maxxforce 7 for an RV. I am seriously considering the purchase of a 2012 32′ RV with the Maxxforce 7 diesel. What year might your RV be? Thank you, Joe

  46. J. Caldwell says:

    I think that international should just go under and stop selling vehicles since they have already ruined enough people lives and they continue to be untruthful and continue to deceive and charge ridiculous prices for parts and repairs.

  47. Bus Mechanic says:

    We have had nothing but trouble with these engines in a school bus fleet. Best move we made was re power to a Cummins. Cost a bunch but at least they are shop every other week for the same problems. We have had buses blow these things up at less than 100k. For an engine that runs maybe four hours a day its pathetic

  48. Jose says:

    I have a 2015 international 8600 sba with a navistar engine, my check engine light is on and i pulled a code 03226, egr valve, can some one help me where is this part located on my enginr? I loose power going up a hill,….

  49. Joseph McCoy says:

    I am looking at a 2012 32′ RV with a Navastar Maxxforce 7 engine. It has 18,000 miles. Am I looking at a maintenance and repair nightmare? thank you.

  50. Brad Goodbread says:

    I just purchased 3 – 2012 Prostars Plus Daycabs with the Maxxforce Engines and 10 Speed Ultrashift Auto Transmissions for $16,500 each a month ago. The trucks had 200,000 miles, 400,000 miles and 500,00 miles. It just seemed like a crazy low price… A Lot of Candy for a Dime! They were Fleet trucks from Dallas. The all looked Brand New! The first thing that I noticed was how Quiet they were! They are getting around 6.5 MPG. They run 7 days a week, about 500 miles/day. I am in South Florida, so the terrain is very flat. I use them to pull Milk Tankers, drop & hook, so there is very little idling (other than in traffic in Miami). So Far ZERO Problems! I am thinking about doing the EGR Delete/DPF Bypass. Anyone do this on a Maxxforce yet?

  51. Eric801 says:

    Has anyone had the ‘fix’ to a late 2012 Maxxforce 6.4L or other 6.4L year motor?
    Did the fix work?
    Navistar is being a bit vague on offering information specifically If I give them a vin they won’t tell me if a fix was done on warranty or who they sold the vehicle to. Just asking. Happy to buy one if it’s not going to be a problem

  52. p bunyon says:

    Is there a delete for the MF13?

  53. Carlos Rivera says:

    I have a 2011 prostar with a maxxforce 13 with a 13 speed. I bought this truck 2 years ago and I run the truck from California to phoenix, San Jose, Sacramento, Portland Oregon I even went to el Paso Texas and I haven’t had any problems like the ones i read on the web?? besides its basic stuff like oil changes etc? I’m pretty happy with this truck I bought it with 490k miles now I have over 640k and still running like a champ! Yes going uphill it feels slow but that doesn’t bother me! Its funny how everyone says the maxxforce is a piece of crap when I hear Cummings, Detroit, paccar etc having the same issues?? Lol I just read a forum on a guy saying to run away from the Detroit dd13-15?? Hmm?? That sounds familiar on what they say about the maxxforce!? I just think if you keep your truck up to date like any other car or truck you should be fine! Just my .02 cents! I have a buddy with a 2012 prostar daycab with a maxxforce 13 and he has zero problems with it! He also bought a 2012 pete 379 with a Cummins and he said he has invested more money on repairing the truck than he has done on the prostar! Maybe maxxforce aren’t that bad as people claim it to be.

  54. Tony Ervin says:

    What is the status of the MF fix now? MY brother wants to buy a 2013 pro for 17.9k with warranty for 5.8k and $300 deductable. I say no. i dont understand why a IH dealer would sell this vehicle without the fix already being done. Even worse the bank will only do 24mos financing.

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